clarations which they have published and | tutionally, and lay their representations circulated, instruct and encourage their flocks in the duties of Christian submission, for which they have an additional stimulus from motives of personal pride; for as far back as the year 1414, their hierarchy was considered one of the first and most independent. At the council of Constance, the British ambassadors owed their rank and prece dence to the king of England, only as king of Ireland; which was considered as one of the four empires in Europe, that had not been conquered. Those mentioned were the Roman-the Constantinopolitan-the Irish-and the Spanish. As long as they proceed consti * The ambassadors of England owed their rank and precedence in the Council of Constance (1414, Henry the Fifth) to the title which the Popes conferred on their sovereigns as lords of Ireland, they would not be allowed to take place or rank as ambassadors of a nation, the advocates of France insisting, that as being conquered by the Romans, again subdued by the Saxons, who were tributaries of the German empire, and never governed by native sovereigns, they should take place as a branch of the empire only; not as a free nation: for they added, it is evident from respectfully before their sovereign and parliament, I shall feel myself bound though in matters of doctrine and faith, both were in the most perfect unison. Add to this, the Irish Church preserved privileges and immunities peculiar to itself. Archbishops and bishops were appointed without consulting Rome; bishops were multiplied at the wills of the metropolitans; they consecrated bishops for foreign missions, and these missionaries, in many instances of discipline, opposed the mandates of Rome; as Columba in Scotland, Finian and Colman in England, Collumbanus in France, St. Gall in Germany, &c. "For more than five centuries after the death of St. Patrick, scarcely any vestiges of a correspondence between Rome and Ireland can be traced; and in this interval, in many instances, Rome looked upon several of the Irish missionaries with a jealous eye. Though these great immunities of the Irish Church were of the utmost importance to the cause of Christianity, and contributed to spread its doctrines in a most rapid manner, particularly in North Britain, amongst the British Saxons, the Gauls, and the Germans; yet in the 11th century, when paganism was totally abolished, these powers seemed too great, and Albertus Magnus, and Bartholomew Glan- | to endanger the peace of the Church. The ville, that the world is divided into three parts, Europe, Asia, and Africa, (for America was not then discovered) Europe was divided into four parts, the Roman, the Constantinopolitan, the Irish, and the Spanish. But the English advocates admitting the force of these allegations, claimed their precedence from Henry's being monarch of Ireland only, and it was accordingly granted." Irish themselves were highly sensible of this, and councils and synods were held from time to time, in order to bring the Church of Ireland to the same subordination to Rome as those of every other part of Europe. In the beginning of the 12th century, the Irish archbishops made a surrender of their exclusive privileges, to Rome, and measures were taken to prevail on princes and nobility to give up their right and nomination to archbishoprics and bishoprics." - See O'Halloran's History of Ireland. "At a very early period Christianity made a rapid progress in Ireland; and on the arrival of Magonius, or (as he is generally called) Patrick, he found an hierarchy, which for a time seemed very unwilling to acknowledge his superiority. By Asiatic or African missionaries, or through them by Spanish ones, were the Irish, probably first instructed in Christianity, because their connections by trade were greater with these than the Romans; | in defence of the Irish time of celebrating and because they rigidly adhered to their customs, as to the tonsure, and the time of celebrating of Easter. It is at least evident, that in these customs they differed from Rome, and that for more than two centuries after the death of St. Patrick; (VOL. XXII.) "At a very early period was Christianity preached in Ireland. The constant enmity between this country and ancient Rome prevented any friendly intercourse. Doctrine came not immediately from thence to Ireland; but from the churches of Asia. The venerable Bede tells, that the feast of Easter, in opposition to that of Rome, Colman, the Irish bishop of Lindisfarn, amongst other reasons declared, that he had received it from his forefathers, who had sent him to Northumberland as their bishop; and that it was the same (2Q) A steadily to support them; but from the hour I perceive another system to be adopted, as a friend of order and a faithful subject, I shall then reluctantly withdraw myself from a cause in which I can custom, which John, Christ's especially beloved disciple, with all the Churches under him, observed. "Afterwards (in the 4th and 5th centuTies) amongst the other causes of St. Patrick's great influence over the Irish people, one was, his attention to avoid whatever could alarm the national pride, or alter the established police of the country. As to the first, we find no hint at a foreign supremacy, during the whole of his mission; nor any dispute whatever about the tonsure, and time of celebrating the feast of Easter; though it is most certain that before, during, and for two centuries after his death, the Irish Church adhered most strictly to the Asiatic Churches in these modes of discipline. "From the remarkable attachment of the Irish to this custom we have still stronger proofs of the uncommon wisdom of Patrick. He probably endeavoured to reconcile the Irish clergy to the practice of the universal Church, and very likely laboured also to make them acknowledge the supremacy of Rome, after his establishment of Christianity here. He laid before the consistory the dangers that he apprehended from insisting on these heads, and we must conclude, had the Pope's approbation of his conduct; since we see that upon his return, the Pope presented him with a pallium, and that he observed the same prudent silence on these matters as he did before. not conceal my heart most deeply interested, from motives of the general welfare and good of the country. Let the Roman Catholic laity and priest. hood warn their fellow subjects that if beginning, and beyond the middle, of the 7th century; when for the second time they met, and not in a friendly manner. The question about Easter was agitated at this time, both in England and France, with great warmth. The Irish are charged with perverseness and wilful obstinacy, in this matter of discipline; but not the least hint at holding heterodox opinions, either themselves or their ancestors. "For a long time after the Irish Church had submitted to the supremacy of Rome, the Popes, though they got the power of approving of future Irish bishops, had not yet that of nominating them." -See O'Halloran's History. "Although this nation kept up a correspondence with Rome, by whose missionaries it was converted, yet our episcopal clergy never applied to that see for bulls of ratification, provisions, or exemptions. The whole ecclesiastical jurisdiction resided in the see of Ardmacha, and there Rome generally left it, as it was originally granted to St. Patrick. In process of time, however, the remote situation of this country, and the intervening distractions of Europe, cut off all communication between the two Churches. After a long interval of 150 years, it was again opened. A schism ensued. It was found that the Scots (Irish) either failed in the due time of keeping Easter, or knew nothing of the synodal decrees of Rome, in the observation of the paschal festival."Vide O'Conner's Dissertations on the History of Ireland. "We have seen, in the 3d and 4th centuries, no differences whatever between the Church of Rome and the Asiatic Churches, save about discipline, and this was confined to the tonsure, and the celebration of Easter. The Irish, from political interest, and their dread of a foreign yoke, were the eternal and avowed enemies of Rome. Their hatred was as conspicuous in the days of Christianity, as in the days of Paganism; and it will not be now controverted, that they owed not the seeds of Christianity to Roman missionaries; yet, and indeed it is wonderful to be told, we plainly see that in the 5th century, in articles of faith, the Churches of Rome and Ireland were in perfect unison,ginning it was not so; but their religion though it was the first time they met! We see the same miraculous conformity in the "It must be allowed that St. Patrick, who succeeded Palladius, was the person that had the good fortune to convert the body of that nation (Ireland) to Christianity; but he was so far from bringing them to Popery, that they owned no jurisdiction the Pope had over them, but differed from the usage at Rome, both in tonsure and in celebrating the feast of Easter; and were therefore counted schismatics by the Romanists; and although at this day, 'their religion,' as my lord of Orrery words it, is something that pins them upon the Pope's sleeve; yet in the bewas pure and orthodox.' "-See Cox's History of Ireland-Introduction. they, unfortunately, should get irritable, and endeavour to separate from us, they would be working their own downfall, as well as the ruin of their sister-kingdom; and that if, in the midst of such a confusion, a foreign enemy were to invade them, their cause would be weakened, and their total destruction follow; as relief would not be the object of the foe, but the possession of all their property, whether Catholic or Protestant. God forbid that such a calamity should visit us! But at the same time that I give this caution to my Catholic, let me equally impress upon my Protestant friends, that our cause would more firmly succeed by promoting the happiness of the people, by preaching and practising love and union; than in widening the breach, and encreasing a division by persecution; which is a principle of injustice, and not a mistaken conscience, begetting fanaticism, and propagating, instead of suppress ing, opinions of discordance. * Ganganelli's Thoughts on Toleration. Lett. 5. 4. "The great misfortune in this case is that some people confound religion with her ministers, and make her responsible for their faults. It never was religion, but false zeal pretending to imitate her, that seized fire and sword to compel heretics to abjure their errors, and Jews to become Christians. There were formerly in the bosom of the Church false zealots, who contended for things not interesting to the faith, of whom ecclesiastical history furnishes many examples, sufficient to make us tremble. For what is more dreadful than to see good men fall victims to a zeal, displeasing in the sight of God, and condemned by the Church, as equally hateful to religion and the rights of society. The practice of Jesus Christ, who, during his residence on earth, bore patiently with the Sadducees and Samaritans, the infidels and schismatics of those times, obliges us to support our brethren of whatever communion they be, to live peaceably with them, and not to torment them on account of any system of belief they have adopted. If we forcibly enlist men into the Church, we shall only make them prevaricators and hypocrites. The power of the Church is purely spiritual; and this is so true, that the first Christians suffered themselves to be butchered, rather than rebel against the edicts of the heathen emperors; and our blessed Redeemer himself, If we are united among ourselves, by the consciousness that we have all equal rights in the constitution, we need dread neither foreign nor domestic foe; and the interest every man will then take in the welfare of the empire, must give an additional stimulus to his industry and to his exertions. These are my sentiments. I have, for particular reasons, studiously avoided touching upon the Coronation Oath, not from want of having formed my opinion upon that subject; but from motives of personal respect and delicacy. But one remark I cannot refrain from making; and if I am out of order, I beg the learned lord to signify it to me, when I shall instantly desist. Much has been said relative to the repugnance shown to the measure in a certain quarter. Should this repugnance have proceeded from considerations of religious and prudential motives warring together, may not the indisposition which most deeply affects us all, and none more particularly than myself, have been occasioned by them? By removing these obstacles, might we not pave the way and open a gleam for a perfect recovery? This is a mystery which can only be known by the Great Disposer of all human events, who alone has a right and a power to take away that life which he has given us; and therefore to his will we must patiently submit, but with pious resignation hope for the best. I could not, however, have brought my mind to have concluded, without mentioning this consideration. And now, having fulfilled conscientiously my duty towards my country, I shall in my turn listen to the further discussion of this important question, with the same patience and attention with which when he prayed for his executioners, taught us how his cause is to be avenged. Had the ministers of the Gospel been always careful to follow that divine model, the enemies of Christianity had not been able to bring against it the unjust reproach of being a persecutor. The Church always disavowed those impetuous men, who, stirred up by indiscreet zeal, treat those who go astray with asperity: and its most holy bishops, in all times, solicited the pardon of apostates, desiring only their conversion. Men therefore ought not to impute to the Church those excesses of which history has preserved the memory, and which are repugnant to the maxims of the Gospel." your lordships have favoured me; and for which I return you my thanks. Lord Redesdale. In the view which the noble mover has taken on this subject, and that entertained by myself, the principal difference is, that while the noble earl thinks that every restraint should be removed which affects the Roman Catholics, I, on the contrary, am of opinion that those restraints and securities formed by the law should remain in force; nor am I disposed to regret the result of experience on the benefit derived from them. quote, to shew that it was held to be inconsistent with the safety of the kingdom, that the sovereign of those realms should profess the Roman Catholic religion, or marry Roman Catholic, and that by so doing, he would be excluded from the crown.(Here the noble lord read different extracts from the Bill of Rights.)-The exclusion of the Catholics from political power was acknowledged by James the 2d himself afterwards, with an express concession, that no Catholic should sit in the Commons House of Parliament, and the succession was at that time provided for in the Pro The great objection, which is the founda-testant line, excluding all branches which tion of every other, to the measure of Catholic Emancipation, is the usurpation of temporal power by spiritual persons. It is this which first shook the foundation of Popish supremacy, and finally led to the Reformation, aided by co-operating causes. It is this subordination of civil to spiritual power, which I must always consider as the great and fundamental objection, considered with relation to the question. It is to be considered, that the Protestant religion is the establishment of the country, and that this should be supported and maintained, for the peace and quiet of the whole community. I can assure the noble earl, that I am not actuated by any species of that enmity to which he has allud were not Protestants. It seems, however, that all those precautions and restrictions, which your ancestors deemed wise and just, are now to be considered as unjust. Your lordships all know, that an oath was taken by the King at his coronation, binding him to maintain the Protestant succession; and that oath was imposed on the sovereign, to prevent him from committing any act which might endanger the constitution.-(Here the noble and learned lord read several passages of the Coronation Oath.)-All these precautions would be unnecessary, unless they were intended to impose on the conscience of the sovereign an obligation not to consent to any act which he might deem injurious to the se ed, or by any dislike to the Roman Catho-curity of the constitution, or the interests of the state. The question then is simply this, whether the proposed act is likely to be injurious or not? And when I find that the guards which are now in existence to protect the constitution have been found sufficient for the purpose during so long a period, I shall not be induced to depart from their security by any speculative notions or opinions. It is impossible to divest a religious sect of the character of a political party; in this view, not only the Catholics, but those of the established religion, and the Scots, which dissented from lics, as such, or bigoted attachment to the Protestants. I only consider the safety of the constitution of the country, of which the Protestant Church forms a part. When it was the policy of James 2, to favour the ascendancy of the Roman Catholic Church, he wished to give to persons professing that religion places of trust under the crown. For what purpose, but to destroy the superiority of the Protestants? Had Roman Catholics been placed in such situations, would it not have been a breach of those laws which were deemed essential to the security of the Protestant establish-it, are to be considered as political parties. ment? Then, until I am assured that securities equally firm are provided, I can never accede to a total removal of the disqualifications of which the Roman Catholics complain. After the abdication of king James, the Prince of Orange was called to the throne of these realms by the Convention Act; and the Declaration of Rights enumerates a variety of acts, contrary to the laws of the realm, for a sovereign to perform. After the accession of king William and queen Mary, this Declaration of Rights was converted into a statute. This act I will The question then is, whether these political parties, distinct from the establishment, are to be admitted into a share of political power, with safety to the state. In an absolute government, the prince, having the complete controul over all the parties in the state, might admit any set of men into power, and he could as easily exclude them, if he saw any occasion for doing so; but in a government like this, such a mode of conduct is absolutely impossible, If the Catholics were admitted to all the places of trust and power under the crown, the consequences would be the ascendancy | prevent the separation of the two king of a hostile political party; for it was impossible to be a true Roman Catholic with but a hostile feeling towards Protestants. Men will be men-the desire of obtaining authority, power, and emolument will naturally influence them; and, besides this, there is another influence likely to operate as strongly, namely, the belief that the Catholic Church is the only true one. That this unfortunate persuasion existed there was the highest authority to prove; men of the first intellectual powers, Mr. Locke, and others, had admitted that the Catholics denied salvation to any persons out of the doms (so much to be dreaded) is to grant pale of their Church. The page of history | gested by the royal duke (Sussex) that as every guard and security are provided, it is therefore proper to go into a committee. But there is no ground for supposing this, for nothing less than unconditional concession would satisfy the Catholics, and this they have declared on various occa. sions in the most positive terms. It is not a little singular that those who would not make the slightest concession on their part, desire to be put in possession of situations which would give them the patronage of the Protestant Church. They desire to be raised to places of trust under the crown, and yet will not grant the crown the most contracted negative. Do they not condemn themselves by refusing to concede the Veto? Do they not declare by the refusal that they would not place the highest dignitaries of the Church from under a foreign controul hostile to this country? And do they, notwithstanding, demand an admission to power which would give them a controul over the Protestant Church? I maintain that it would answer no good purpose to go into a committee; for, if the object of such a measure is to conciliate the Catholics, it would not be effected by any thing short of entire and absolute con shewed the unfortunate conflicts which had and good-will; but the moment they gained a standing-place, they assumed the language of menace and intimidation. I need only refer your lordships to the The noble and learned lord then adverted to the publications which were cir-lutions, which pledged the Catholics not to culated by the Catholics, which he main- vote for any candidate who would not suptained to be full of falshoods and misre-port the entire concession of the Catholic presentations, and he censured the disposition manifested to rake up those halfburied writings which had formerly tended to inflame the passions of the people. Among others, he alluded to a work entitled "Ward's Errata of the Protestant Bible," a work particularly suited to that purpose. You are told that the way to Claims, &c.) For what purpose, then, would their lordships go into a committee ? What have you to consider there? What to debate upon? The simple and naked question is, whether you are prepared to give all they ask, for less than all would not satisfy them? If this were done, I could not but see great insecurity in it; |