But if there existed any doubt on this point, it may easily be cleared up by looking back to the divisions in the two last Catholic Petitions, in both of which a considerable majority of Irish members voted for the prayer of them. This is in itself a decisive proof that the Protestants of Ireland are favourable to the claims of the Catholics. In respect to what has been said by the learned doctor, as to the manner in which signatures to this Petition have been obtained, he is equally unfortunate in his inference; for, if instead of the quiet, disinterested mode, pursued by those who were the advocates of it, similar acts of energy and influence had been resorted to, to those which distinguished the enemies of it, in the place of thousands, who now appear as parties to it, the signatures of ten times their number could readily have been acquired. As to the Petition of the corporation of Dublin against the Roman Catholics, no man the least acquainted with that corporation, and the influence of government over it, by means of the dependance of most of its leading members upon the pleasure of government for the lucrative places they hold, can allow that it deserves the smallest weight whatever. Let the House recollect lord Wellington's act for establishing a police in Dublin, and they may judge from that how far this corporation can have any claim to an independant opinion. As to any endeavours of the chief secretary to obtain from that corporation this adverse Petition, it is unfortunate for him that some how or other, his conduct, as explained by himself, is so very different from that which vulgar minds, judging from common appearances, have conceived it to be; for there certainly did exist circumstances which looked very much like an attempt on his part to controul the proceedings of this body the first time the Petition was proposed to them. But though the right hon. gentleman may himself have acted with so much discretion, as not to be personally implicated in any plan for defeating the object of the friends of the Catholics, it by no means follows that any part of the charge of the right hon. gentleman, who has presented their Petition, is unfounded; for we all know, from the history of the Union, by the subsequent explanations of a noble lord opposite, how effectually the government of Ireland may wield its influence at the same time that the first mimister of it may conscientiously assert he never abused its patronage, nor committed its faith for great popular concessions. That the agents of government did, by their command, use every exertion to defeat the liberal and patriotic efforts of the Protestants of Ireland in favour of their Catholic countrymen, is as true, as the assertion of the right hon. gentleman who has presented their Petition, that it speaks the sentiments of a decided majority of the Protestants of Ireland. Sir George Hill.-I deny that government interfered either one way or the other. It will be my duty to present tomorrow a Petition from the Catholics of the county and city of Londonderry, a great body of the inhabitants of which is against Catholic Emancipation. Mr. Hutchinson.-Sir; the insinuation that the Protestants of Ireland are unfriendly to the Catholic claims, is as uncandid, as from the Petition now presented, it appears to be wholly unfounded; and one cannot but be anxious to learn the circumstances, from which gentlemen consider that they are justified in arguing to this effect. I should be glad to know whether, from any thing lately passed in Ireland, it is fair or just, by mere conjecture and assertion in debate, to try to do away the impression which this Petition in behalf of the Roman Catholic claims, is so well calculated to produce, not only in the House, but throughout the empire. I admit, with shame and regret, that there may exist a disposition, nay, perhaps, an ardent wish, in certain quarters, to excite such an hostility; but I know not any language sufficiently strong, with which to reprobate such an object; and be it remembered, that the attempt to deny the importance of this Petition is made on a question, involving the happiness and welfare of several millions of subjects. Acquainted as I am with the history and progress of these claims, nothing can surprise After every foul and false charge, every serious and every futile objection, had been over and over again made and repeated, Parliament were at length gravely assured, that even the Catholics did not desire emancipation; but when this impudent and foolish assertion was about to be denied by the united Catholic voice, the refutation was sought to be proved by most unconstitutional attempts to silence that voice. And now that the Protestants of Ireland, who, for a long season, had been cruelly hallooed against the Catholics, had discovered the artifice, and were voluntarily rushing forward to save their common country and the empire, by declaring their readiness to renounce a monstrous monopoly, and their anxious wish to secure and enhance all their blessings, by sharing them with their country me. men. Now, when the Protestants themselves presented the olive branch, and were for healing those wounds which a wicked policy had studiously inflicted, there were not wanting those who would prevent the accomplishment of this great and good work; and in the face of the evidence afforded by the Petition, would anxiously conceal from the parliament and the lean short-sighted wicked policy had spread desolation and wretchedness. I am compelled to admit that my right hon. friend has indeed rejoiced, nay, even exulted at this happy revolution of sentiment in the Irish Protestant mind-of that crime he has been guilty, and in that offence I wish to be included as having fully participated; but I positively deny that he has said one word in condemnation of any part of Ireland, much less any thing calculated to influence one district against the other. True he has stated, that even in the north, in parts of which at one period, a disposition unfriendly to the Catholics, had with great industry been ex throne, the actual state of the public mind | cited, and kept alive; that even there, no challenge had been thrown out to the Pro-ed, and that the entire of the names will in Ireland. I will not undertake to say the exact proportion of Protestant property, represented by the signatures to this Petition; much less shall I venture to declare how particular Protestant individuals, or some Protestant districts still feel on this great question; but this I may and do assert in the most unqualified manner, that a complete change of sentiment among the Protestants, favourable to the Roman Catholic claims, has happily taken place, particularly since the Union: nor is it too much to assert, that the Protestants of Ireland are now generally friendly to that measure; nay, even anxious for its speedy accomplishment. When the infatuated, determined, hostility of the present administration to this question is considered, there cannot be a doubt, that had ministers felt there existed generally in Ireland, or in any part of that country, a hostile anti-catholic feeling, they would have done any thing in their power to have drawn forth a declaration of such sentiment: not having made the attempt proves their conviction that any such would have been vain; that is, it proves that they are well assured, that the Protestant feeling is now friendly, not hostile, to the Catholic cause. Gentlemen seem sorely vexed and displeased, that the member for Derry should have expressed pleasure and satisfaction, when presenting this Petition; that he should have exulted in the existence of such a document, and have ventured to congratulate his country, that at length every class and sect appeared disposed to make common cause for Irish interestthat all internal feuds were about to cease -that the infernal fume of divide et impera' could no longer be played with success, where for centuries a machiave such feeling at present manifested itself: but he has said nothing reflecting upon the north, nothing disrespectful of the Protestants, nothing to irritate, but much to appease and to harmonize in the warm expression of his heartfelt joy at the part the Protestants had taken at such a crisis; and surely every honest man must be delighted at the intelligence-every true Irishman disposed to exult at the bright prospect which this happy revolution of sentiment opens to his country, while every real friend to the peace, power and stability of the empire must anticipate the happiest results from such a union. They who seem disposed, at any risk, to keep alive amongst their countrymen a difference of opinion on any subject, they prove their conduct was questionable at such a moment. It had been argued as if a defiance to collect counter Petitions had been thrown out, but no such defiance had been given. Though I flatter my self that any attempt to create disunion in Ireland would now be vain that the counter Petitions which some gentlemen seem disposed to threaten, could not be obtained, still I am little disposed to dare any man to the trial, for I cannot easily forget how severely my unfortunate country has suffered, and for centuries, in consequence of the too successful machinations of disturbed and angry spirits; and I am far from denying that the power, (I had hoped not the will) to do mischief still remained, though I rejoice to think that any such noxious influence is very much lessened, and thank God, is likely very speedily to become altogether inefficient. The people of Ireland are beginning to think and to act as one man, and I caution ministers to beware how they influence, or permit to be influenced, such a population. The claims of the Catholics cannot be with held; they will do wisely to consider this, and before it be too late, to conciliate those, whom they cannot much longer insult and oppress with impunity. The Petition now presented is offered to the House of Commons as expressive of the favourable opinion of the Protestants of Ireland on the subject of the Catholic claims, as far forth as that sense has been collected or declared. It is the first general appeal to parliament from this body, in approval of those claims, and there is no counter Petition. These are facts incontrovertible, which cannot be too often repeated, too strongly, too confidently relied upon. Sir George Hill.-I did not assert that a The substance of the Petition and the place where it lay, were advertised in all the newspapers; and as fast as names were obtained, they were copied in large characters and hung up in the room for public inspection. Indeed when the conductors of the Petition reckoned much on the influence of the great names signed to it, and which, on the very first instance, comprehended many of the highest in rank, in property, and in character, it was too preposterous to suppose that they had, as the learned doctor charged, concealed such signatures. But, to settle the point, I can inform the learned doctor that I have in my possession a printed list of the first two thousand signatures which had been circulat testants. With respect to the observations of the hon. gentleman, I can assure him that I shall always express my sentiments, whether he liked them or not; and further, that I will controvert any observation of the hon. gentleman, when I feel it necessary to do so. The Petition was then brought up, and on the question being put that it should lie on the table, Mr. Maurice Fitzgerald said, I amindifferent to which of the strange and contradictory accusations made by the learned doctor he adheres, because they are equally and totally unfounded. He has stated at one moment "that the Petition was carried about in an indecent canvas for signatures;" and in the next, " that it was concealed in a dark room where no one could either read its contents or see the names signed to it." The absurdity of these inconsistent charges is a sufficient refutation of them. be speedily published; and on that publication, I challenge an investigation in proof of what I have already stated, that the Petition has been signed by a majority of the landed and commercial Protestant property of Ireland: but on what authority did the learned doctor and his adherents make their denials to the respectability of names which the learned doctor himself declared he never had seen. not on his own knowledge, he was merely the echo of that ribaldry and vulgar abuse with which the hired press of the Irish government had impotently sought to suppress or impede the noble expression of Protestant liberality. " If The learned doctor has also, with equal accuracy, denied that the signatures from the North of Ireland are numerous and respectable: he states, that with the exception of some misguided men in the county of Down, no person of any wealth had signed it." Is the majority of the commercial body of Belfast and Newry deserving of that description? That But, for the purpose of affording an express contradiction to what has been so confidently asserted by the learned doc-class of men whose capital and spirit gives tor, I shall state the mode in which the Petition was conducted. The persons with whom the Petition originated, thought it right, confident as they were in the wisdom and justice of their cause, to appeal to the judgment of the Protestants in the most calm and deliberate manner. For that purpose, county and aggregate meetings were discouraged, to avoid any agitation of the public mind; and instead of a canvas for signatures, the Petition was placed in a room in the commercial buildings of Dublin, the central spot for mercantile business, and the most accessible situation in the city. life to all the industry of the great manufacturing district, the North of Ireland ? Is the commercial body of Dublin, of Waterford, and of Limerick, nothing in the scale of Irish property? Will the learned doctor, in the hearing of those who know Ireland, call such classes " an insignificant portion of the wealth of Ireland." I therefore again assert, without the possibility of being refuted, that the majority of the landed and commercial Protestant property of Ireland is subscribed to that Petition, Dr. Duigenan. I maintain that the Petition was smuggled about in a clandestine manner. I know instances where persons who went to see it were asked first of all, if they meant to sign it? And if they declined saying whether they would or not, they were refused the perusal of it. When the names were printed, they would then know whether they did represent what they were asserted to do; but I am certain that there were many Protestants of the first eminence who reprobate Catholic Emancipation. With regard to the Protestant Petition, I know that various arts were used to obtain signatures: many shop-keepers in Dublin, whose subsistence depended upon their trade, were threatened with a general combination to ruin them, if they did not sign it. I know this could be proved. -I could mention several counties where the Petition was rejected with disdain by the grand juries; and therefore I have grounds for saying that it does not contain the majority of the commercial property of Ireland. I will mention an instance of a dissenting minister in the country, who signed the Petition, who was hunted out of his church by his congregation, and reproached with the opprobrious name of another Ju das. Mr. Craig. I do believe that three fourths of the Protestants of Belfast are favourable to Catholic claims. As I represent a Northern city, (Carrickfergus) I know that several signatures could have been obtained, if the necessary form of a petition had been prepared; and the member for Belfast is a subscriber to the Petition. Mr. Robert La Touche. -The right hon. doctor alluded to me and my family, as having been particularly concerned in promoting this Petition, and as if the Petition had succeded only by the agency of some of my connections. Certainly, Sir, the head of my family has signed his name first to the Petition, and although formerly in the separate state of Ireland, he was hostile to the Catholic claims, he has changed his opinion with the change of circumstances, and very much to his honour, has candidly avowed that change. He is totally unfounded in supposing that this Petition has been produced by any such agency or management. It has been most respectably signed, by persons of the utmost independence and above any influence. Colonel Vereker said, that a great proportion of the Protestants of Limerick was not favourable to Catholic Emancipation. The Petition was then read; setting forth, "That the petitioners do most humbly petition the House in favour of their brethren and fellow subjects, the persons professing the Roman Catholic religion, who apply to parliament to be admitted to the privileges and franchises of the constitution; and that the petitioners, their Protestant brethren, do consider such application to be just, and they do most heartily join the Catholics in this their loyal and reasonable request, and, convinced of its policy as well as its justice, they do most zealously implore the House to comply with the prayer of the said Petition, and to relieve the persons professing the Roman Catholic religion from all civil and political disabilities." Ordered to lie upon the table. PETITION OF THE ROMAN CATHOLICS OF WATERFORD.] Sir John Newport. I have the honour of presenting to the House the Petition of the Roman Catholics of the county and city of Waterford, from a very numerous, opulent, and respectable body of his Majesty's subjects, praying to be restored to the full participation in the privileges of the constitution with their Protestant fellow subjects. Possessed of large landed and monied property, feeling their best interests intimately connected with the welfare of the state, they claim from the justice of this House a candid and dispassionate consideration of their Petition. They pray that at a crisis of unexampled danger to the empire, their efforts in its defence may not be impeded by unjust restrictions; that their tried loyalty may not be sullied by unmerited degradation; that no bar of separation may remain to alienate them from their native country, but that sharing in her dangers, they may share in her honours also. I have peculiar pleasure in presenting this Petition, as I am enabled here to disprove, both from the magnitude of property, and the nature of its tenure, the un warrantable assertions which have been hazarded in this House by a right hon. and learned civilian, as to the intentions entertained by the Roman Catholics of Ireland. I know that 200,000l. have been vested by some of the petitioners, within these ten years past, in the purchase of landed property, principally on those very titles which the learned doctor has accused them with a wish to subvert. It refutation of the learned doctor's assertions than the petitioners have done, supplying by their practice the most unanswerable commentary upon the monstrous theoretical opinions with which he has so often attempted to mislead this House. is impossible to furnish a more complete | sure, and until some necessity was shewn, Mr. Pole Carew called the right hon. baronet to order, conceiving it to be irregular to allude to former discussions. Sir J. Newport. I contend that I have not been out of order, as the right hon. doctor had published his speech, and sent it into general circulation, which made it public property, and of course subject to comment; especially as the Catholics of Ireland generally, and my constituents in particular, most justly complained of the unfounded, calumnious assertions contained in that publication. me. Dr. Duigenan. In any thing I said against the Roman Catholics of Ireland in any former debate, I said against the whole body, and not against those of Waterford, or any other corner of Ireland; therefore I cannot see why the right hon. baronet should have made any allusion to He reminds me of Harlequin in the pantomime, building up a castle of paste board that he might knock it down with his wand of lath; besides, it would have been more proper if the hon. gentleman reserved the eloquence of which we hear so much every night, when he shall have plenty of opportunities to answer my opinions about the Roman Catholic sect. The Petition of the Catholics of the county and city of Waterford was then brought up, presented, read, and ordered to lie on the table. It was the same as the General Petition of the Catholics of Ireland. GOLD COIN AND BANK NOTE AMENDMENT BILL.] Mr. Wharton having appeared at the bar with the report of this Bill, the question being put for its being brought up, Mr. Pole Carew expressed his total disapprobation of the principle of the Bill, inasmuch as it would create an inducement to give more for coin than its nominal or legal value, thereby creating a crime which could not be prevented by any legislative act. Sir Thomas Turton contended, that if this Bill passed into a law, it would com. pletely do away the sacred contracts between landlords and tenants. He could see no necessity whatever for such a mea he could by no means give his vote in its favour. The House had heard from a noble lord (Castlereagh) that the Bill would be of considerable importance, and was in truth much wanted in the north of Ire land. He did not, however, feel disposed to take the noble lord's ipse dixit, and should therefore wait for better evidence of the fact, before he could give it implicit credence. A committee ought to be appointed to enquire into the state of Ireland, and if they reported that such was the state of that country as to render such a Bill necessary, he should have no objection to give it his sanction, At present he could only regard it as the worst of evils, the only effect of which would be to destroy the compact between man and man, and create dissentions and disagreements which could not be too strongly deprecated. He had heard it stated that Ireland was precisely in the same state, as far as regarded the powers of this Bill, as England This he begged leave to deny. In Ireland a special agreement was entered into by the tenant to pay his rent in specie. Would the House then dissolve these compacts? Would they, by passing this Bill, completely overthrow those customs which had so long existed, without question or inconvenience? He could not help thinking that the facility already given to paper currency had given rise to something like depreciation, and had little doubt that a one pound note and a shilling would not purchase so much as a guinea. An hon. gentleman had suggested as a nostrum for this evil, that the Bank should be suffered to regulate their own issues; that country banks should be obliged to pay their notes in specie; and that government should pay to the Bank the sum due to them by the country. He should be glad to know how these measures, if adopted, would have the desired effect? Or, how the payment of that sum would draw back to the country that coin which appeared to have totally evaporated? He was firmly persuaded that the connection between the government and the Bank was extremely ruinous; but when government attempted to legislate for them, and to give value to their notes, the consequences would be fatal. As long as the war in the peninsula continued, the country could expect to have no other coin than the pocket pieces which were at present in circulation. He did hear of a flag of truce having arrived, and of some over |