plunder; their labours, however, here ended with a surcharge of 113 bushels of malt more than their own account proves to have been made; and that, on the 14th of May, 125 barrels of porter were shipped, the debenture 1131. was in due time applied for, it was refused, and no cause was to this hour assigned; application was twice made to the Board by Petition, who pretended to refer to the officers, who declared it strong beer, and entitled to the drawback, but at last the Petitions they pretended were lost; and that a Petition was now advised to be sent to the Treasury; it was presented there at 11 o'clock 26th July, accompanied with an affidavit, proving the facts related; there it was registered, "a conspiracy of Excise officers," and refered to the Board of Excise for their reply; but, between 7 and 8 o'clock the same evening, they send an extent on the premises, commanding to seize all the property, and imprison the petitioner for 2801. 3s. 10d. which they pretend was due for duty on beer, the amount of the beer duty on the Excise books, including the strong beer duty for that exported, was 931. 15s. 6d. the drawback, which became due on the 15th of June, was 1131.; if this beer which their own officers declared and allowed to be exported as strong beer, was so, a fact which admits of no controversy, they having seized the property for strong beer duty, then the balance due from the Excise to the petitioner was 191. 4s. 6d.; but if, on the contrary, this beer could now be proved to be not strong, but table-beer, then more than 111. could not be due to them on that score; the affidavit, however, which accompanied the Petition, settles this point; and that, after waiting seven weeks for an answer from the Treasury, a memorial was sent there, complaining also of the new outrage of the extent; after waiting six weeks for an answer to this, a letter was written to the secretary of the Treasury, briefly stating the whole of the grievance; a note was soon after received from him, saying, that the Board of Excise had promised to make their official reportshortly; after another pause of about a month, a personal application was made to the secretary, to request the favour of an explananation of the meaning of the word "shortly;" a gentleman now came forward, and said, "Mr. Harrison is engaged; The desires me to say, that the Board of Excise can justify their proceedings, and are now in search of evidence to justify

them in withholding the payment of the drawback; a Petition was now (in August) presented to the Prince Regent, but no redress, nor even a reply, was ever obtained; in the mean time, both body and goods were, by the command of the writ (a copy of which is preserved,) doomed for four months to lay under the interdict of this barbarous inquisition, no provision made for the sustenance of man, woman, or child, nor even for the live stock on the premises, some have perished for want, some were stolen, and some sold, and the money taken by the officers; and finally, after remaining between five and six months on the premises, the effects were sold off, in one lot, for 140l. and the lease of 62 years became forfeit to the landlord; thus is all which has been expended in this concern under the pledged security of public law, and which amounts to upwards of 5,000l. destroyed by a species of crime the most disgusting in its nature, and terrible in its consequences, the world ever saw; and that the petitioner, being thus despoiled of his property, debarred the means of self-defence, and cut off from every hope of legal redress for the grievous injuries he has sustained, at last appeals to the House, in the hope that there is still a responsible power remaining somewhere; and that it is impossible that the persons and property of Englishmen should be wholly without the means of protection in their own country; therefore the petitioner humbly prays the House to take his case into consideration, and afford him that redress which the national honour and justice may in their wisdom appear to demand."

Ordered to lie upon the table.

PETITION OF THE ROMAN CATHOLICS or ENGLAND.) Mr. Elliot. Mr. Speaker; I hold in my hand a Petition from a most respectable, most loyal, and, if honourable ancestry be an object of consideration, a very illustrious portion of his Majesty's subjects-I mean the Roman Catholics of England, who have been pleased to express a wish, that I should be the bearer of their claims to this House. It must be to them, as well as to you, Sir, and to the House, a melancholy recollection, that two years ago these claims were in the hands of one, who had the means of doing ample justice to any cause, however great and momentous its importance.

Of those splendid talents and powerful and efficacious virtues, we are now bereft

place them on a level with their fellow subjects, are much stronger and more decisive proofs of the integrity of their principles than can be manifested by any oath or declaration whatsoever: and that, in affection to his Majesty's sacred person and government, in zeal for the cause and welfare of the country, in detestation of the views and designs of any foreign power against the dignity of the crown, or the welfare or independence of the kingdom, the English Roman Catholics yield to no portion whatever of his Majesty's subjects; and praying, that the House will take into consideration the penalties and disabilities to which the English Roman Catholics are still subject, and grant them such relief as shall in their great wisdom be deemed expedient." Ordered to lie on the table.

PETITION FROM THE PROTESTANTS OF IRELAND IN FAVOUR OF THE ROMAN CATHOLICS.] Mr. Maurice Fitzgerald, knight of Kerry, rose and said: -Sir; I am charged with the Petition which is to be presented to this House from the persons whose names are signed thereto, being Protestant land-owners in Ireland. Some circumstances that have occurred regarding it, render it necessary that I should trouble the House with a few words. I would first take the liberty of stating why it has devolved upon so insignificant an individual as myself, to present one of the most important Petitions that can be brought under the consideration of parliament. It may be known that the member for Dublin, at whose suggestion this Petition was first set on foot, was immediately afterwards obliged to leave Ireland, and it devolved upon me to undertake the task he reluctantly resigned, and to be instrumental in its progress, and I am consequently in possession of circumstances important to be known, previous to the approaching discussion of the Catholic Question. The Petition is from the Protestant proprietors of Ireland, and is perfectly unprecedented not only in amount of property, belonging to individuals, who have annexed their names at any former time to a Petition on this subject, but it is the first instance of any general application on the part of the Protestants of Ireland on behalf of their Catholic fellow-subjects. To establish the importance of the Petition, it is suffi cient for me to state what, without an approach to exaggeration, I may confidently assert, that it expresses the sentiments of a decided majority of the Protestant pro(VOL. XXII.)

prietors of Ireland.-[Hear, hear!)-I am desirous of repeating the fact, because if it be thought that I overstate it, I am desirous to be contradicted, that I may resort to the proofs with which I am provided. I repeat, therefore, that the Petition expresses the sense of a decided majority of the Protestant proprietors of Ireland, both landed and commercial. I feel it right further to explain, that this Petition, although most respectably and numerously signed, by no means contains the names of all those Protestants who are favourable to Catholic Emancipation on principle; and I wish, with the utmost confidence in the fact, to mention the reason why the names of several who are favourable to it on principle, do not appear to this address. A great number of Protestants in Ireland did entertain a notion that it would be proper, in any Pe. tition presented to parliament, to include conditions and securities. A large proportion, therefore, declined affixing their signatures, because it did not comprize the stipulations they required to be inserted. I wish further to state, that many of those whose names are affixed, do not desire Catholic Emancipation uncondi tionally; but it appears to all who have signed, that it was not a proper matter to be mentioned in a Petition, but that it ought to be left to the wisdom of parliament; there are numbers who would willingly have added their signatures, if those conditions had been inserted. Many who expressed themselves decidedly favourable to the object in view, have refused to sign it, on account of the violence of the recent differences between the Irish governinent and a part of the Catholic body. I think I have now stated enough to entitle this Petition to the serious consideration of parliament. I have, however, to add, what I am sorry to be obliged to mention, that against the Petition (conducted in the most moderate manner, in. tentionally guarded against the slightest imputation of an attempt to agitate the public feelings) all the influence that could possibly be used by the Irish government has been directed. (Mr. W. Pole said "No, no;" very audibly across the House.) The right hon. gentleman says No; and having so asserted, I feel myself bound to go into proofs of the fact. I say again, notwithstanding this contradiction, that the influence of government has been most notoriously and indecently directed against the Petition I hold in my hand. The office (21)

1

of sheriff, a place of most sacred trust, and of the utmost importance to the due distribution of justice, has been tampered with. Persons who had been promised to be made sheriffs for the ensuing year, have been set aside, because the individual recommending one of them had signed the Protestant Petition. I say, that another person who was actually understood to be appointed, did signify to the Irish government, that having also signed the Petition, he apprehended he should be deemed an improper person to fulfil the duties, as his predecessor was rendered incapable on a similar account. I know that individuals possessing public situations, I will not say directly, but indirectly, received menaces from the government, that they should forfeit their places if they favoured the Petition. I know, too, that the partizans of government have held out threats to people, if they suffered the Petition even to remain in their houses; the terrors of inflicted vengeance have been used in the most undisguised manner for the avowed purpose of defeating the Petition. Under all these circumstances it stands a proud proof of the rapidly extending liberality of the Protestants of Ireland in favour of Catholic Emancipation. It is to me an extreme gratification to state, that the most numerous signatures are obtained from the north of Ireland, the inhabitants of which are peculiarly Protestant. I am the more proud of it, because it shews a change of opinion in the only part of Ireland formerly most opposed to this measure: it is a change to be well considered by his Majesty's ministers, because it proves that the Protestants as well as Catholics are now united in the cause. I have said that it is signed very numerously; but the names are not nearly so numerous as they would have been, if the Petition had been circulated among the lower classes. In several districts the signatures only of persons of considerable property are affixed to it, a circumstance very much to be regretted; because, in a case like the present, it would have been desirable to have ascertained thus unequivocally the sense of the middle, as well as the higher order of Protestants. The persons who had the management of it were, however, desired to apply only for the signatures of persons of landed property; and although it is swelled by the names of several thousands, it is not, for this reason, of such magnitude as it would otherwise have appeared. I should remark also, that there

are several parts of Ireland, to which, from accidental circumstances, the Petition was not sent; but where, had it been otherwise, it would have met with very extensive support. In some parts many signatures have been obtained which have not been affixed to this Petition; for, by letters I have received to day, I find that since I quitted Ireland, several copies of it have been signed most respectably in the county of Down, which is more peculiarly a Protestant district. Under these circumstances I feel myself authorized, not only to beg permission to bring this Petition up, that it may be laid upon the table, but to recommend to the House to receive it with serious attention, as containing the decided sentiments of the uninfluenced and independent part of the Protestant proprietors of Ireland.

Mr. Wellesley Pole. -Sir; after what has fallen from the right hon. gentleman, I cannot avoid offering a few observations to the House. As the right hon. gentleman has stated that the Petition was signed by a great majority of the Protestants of Ireland, I am not disposed to dispute the assertion; but I am much surprised, notwithstanding; and it is the first time I have ever heard, that the majority of resident Protestants in Ireland were supposed to be favourable to the claims of the Catholics. I know, indeed, that great pains has been taken to promote signatures; but I can assure the right hon. gentleman, that if the zeal of the Protestants had been equally excited for a different purpose, Petitions of a very different description would be sent in from a very numerous body of the Protestants of Ireland. The statement, however, which called me up was, that the government of Ireland had interfered to obstruct the success of the Petition, and particularly, that they would not appoint a sheriff who was known to have signed the Petition. I happened to be in Ireland at the period when the idea of the Petition was first suggested at a dinner given to the friends of religious liberty in Dublin, last December, but I never heard till now of the interference of government to oppose the progress of such a Petition. On the contrary, their object throughout has been to allow the Catholics to proceed by Petition as long as they thought proper to confine themselves to that constitutional course of proceeding, and also not to interfere with the Protestants in any steps they might take in favour of the Catholics. With regard to the appointment of a sheriff, I would be glad if the right hon. gentleman would explain the allusion he has made. I was much surprised to hear such a charge made against the noble duke, who is at the head of the Irish government; and I verily believe that no man can think it possible that the duke of Richmond would lend himself to such a purpose. I do not know what the right hon. gentleman meant by the exertions of the partizans of government against the Petition; ion; but I know that no suggestion has been given by the Irish government to that effect; and in the county which I have the honour to represent, and where it might be natural to suppose such influence would be exerted; I appeal to my hon. colleague (Mr. Parnell) to confirm my assertion, that no such interference has been attempted. Let the right hon. gentleman then come forward, and manfully make his charge, and call for documents to prove it, instead of dealing in vague assertions, which I believe, upon the honour and conscience of a gentleman, he is not borne out; and I am persuaded that the Irish government would spurn such attempts as are ascribed to them. If I was called on to give my opinion on the subject before you, I would say that I wish the Petition to be read, and that its merits should undergo a full and fair investigation; but I do not think it fair in the right hon. gentleman to make such charges without better foundation for them.

Mr. Maurice Fitzgerald. -The right hon. gentleman having called on me, I name, without hesitation, the county to which I alluded, it is Carlow. I have no doubt of the fact, and I shall restate it. The nomination of sheriff had been promised to a gentleman of large fortune in that county: he had announced the promise to his friend, who took measures preparatory to his appointment, quite notorious in the county. But, on the former signing the Petition, the Castle immediately superseded the first engagement, and named the second on the list. That gentleman replied, that as he, also, had signed the Protestant Petition, government would probably consider him an unfit sheriff, and begged to decline. Government refused; but on learning that the sheriff would, if a requisition was made to him, call a county meeting on the subject, they acquiesced in his resignation; and a third person was appointed. I should be glad that an enquiry were made into these facts.

I have also ascertained, from authority which I cannot doubt, that individuals have been threatened, by the agents of the Irish government, with the loss of their situations, if they should sign the Petition. I shall not mention their names, because that would involve them in the very danger with which they were threatened, and would invite oppression towards them. I know an instance, and could prove it, of a person extremely friendly to the measure, who had agreed to keep the Petition in his house, in a county town, during the assizes, for signatures.

On the gentleman, to whom he gave the assurance, calling on him on the following day, he said-" Sir, since I saw you, I have been threatened with the loss of my office, if I shall suffer the Petition to remain in my house." Various other instances of the most unwarrantable interference, was quite notorious in many parts of Ireland.

Mr. W. Pole.-I protest I know nothing of the circumstance of the sheriff of Carlow. Dr. Duigenan-I maintain that the Petition has been smuggled about for signatures in a clandestine, underhand manner. Not one-third of those who had signed it, knew any thing of its contents. I have not read it; but from the cowardly way in which it was handed about, I do not believe it contains the names of one hundredth part of the Protestant property of Ireland. It is easy for members to make assertions of matters of which they are totally ignorant. I can speak positively as to the north of Ireland, and from thence the signatures, I know, were very insignificant, those from the misguided men of the county of Down excepted.

Mr. Parnell. The right hon. and learned doctor has stated to the House not only a correct opinion, "that it is exceedingly easy for members to make assertions of matters, of which they are wholly ignorant," but he has likewise afforded the strongest possible illustration of it in his his own speech; he having told the House in the first sentence, that he never had read or seen the Petition. The assertion, therefore, of the learned doctor, "that this Petition does not speak the sense of the majority of the Protestants of Ireland," cannot have any weight, when placed in opposition to that of the right hon. gentleman who has presented it, and who has had every opportunity of knowing the true purport of it, and on whose veracity the most implicit reliance may be placed.