The noble earl said, that the under-tenant was no party to the contract. This was a mistake, he was a party, and in that view there was no injustice in keeping him to that which he had accepted with his eyes open. His title to the land must be derived from those above him, and he must, therefore, be a party to that upon which alone his right was founded. This, how ever, was a very important subject, and he hoped their lordships would consider well of it. Every one must wish that the evil should be removed; but they ought to take care not to legislate rashly, lest they might do more mischief in one way, than The Earl of Clancarty very much doubted whether any adequate remedy could be provided: and as to the measure proposed by the noble earl, he was sure that he himself must see the difficulties which stood in the way of its adoption. The noble earl said, that the middle-men might be left to their remedy upon contract independent of the land, because the subtenants were no parties; but it must be remembered, that the sub-tenants were like purchasers, with notice of the fact. They knew the powers of those above them, and took the land subject to the burthen. To deprive the middle-men of they prevented in another. They might | their rights by an ex post facto law, would The be gross injustice; but he believed, that the practice of creating these middle tenants, was very fast going down, from the landlords better understanding their own interest, and the value of their property. It also became less the interest of those who might be disposed to put themselves in the situation of middle-men to have any thing to do with such leases, for the profits were but very small, compared with those of former demises of that nature. practice had arisen, or at least, attained the great height to which it had reached, from the peculiar circumstances of Ireland: but since the late improvements in that country, the evil was diminishing, and he trusted, would soon be done away. He would not, however, oppose the printing of the Bill. The subject was worthy of the most attentive consideration; but if the noble earl meant to restrict subletting, he wished him to consider what would be the effect, especially in large towns, such as Dublin and London, if the provisions of the Bill were to be extended to both countries, as he understood they were. cast about in their minds, whether the subdemising of land, with a power of distress, might not be checked; whether it might not be provided, that afterwards no subletting, with such a power, should be allowed. That, he thought, was the utmost extent to which they could go; that in subsequent sub-demises, the power of distress should be either taken away or modified. He himself happened to hold some land in Ireland, and had expended a good deal of money upon it. When he left that country, no purchaser could be found, and if he had not had the power of subdemising, with the remedy of distress, he should have had no remedy at all, and the property would have been of little value. This was owing to the unfortunate state of Ireland. The disturbed situation of that country gave occasion to the frequency of the instances in which this remedy was resorted to. If the country were perfectly tranquil, the evil would soon remedy itself. Those who, without capital, were now the tenants of the soil, would then be labourers on the farms of others, and the mischief would be done away, or at least exist only in the same degree as in England. InThe Earl of Suffolk agreed, that it was deed, the practice of sub-demising was almost desirable that a remedy should be provided, but doubted whether this one could be adopted. He was glad, however, to hear from the noble lord who spoke last, that the practice of sub-demising was going down. He himself happened to have come to the knowledge of an instance which so far corroborated that statement. A gentleman of great property in Ireland, had sent his steward to survey his estates there. The steward found it necessary to have a considerable guard in going round the property. But after the survey, he resolved to put an end to the practise of demising to middle tenants, and the people were so well pleased at ready beginning to be less frequent. Landlords now began to understand that it was their interest to grant leases with a condition not to sub-let, and the evil was gradually diminishing. But, however, the subject deserved the most serious consideration, and he certainly should not op- ❘ pose this Bill at present. He should be most happy if a remedy could be provided, but he confessed that he could not see any method by which the evil could be effectually cured. He could at this moment, he was sorry to say, conceive no plan which would not do as much mischief in other respects, as it would do good in this. this, that they could with difficulty be prevented from taking the horses from his carriage, and drawing it themselves. He agreed that this was a subject which deserved the most serious consideration. Lord Holland, after observing that his noble friend deserved the thanks of the country for having brought forward this question, said, that he did not think his proposal had been fairly treated. Considering the magnitude of the subject, he thought the noble lords on the other side ought to have waited till they had the printed Bill in their hands before they met the plan with so many expressions of despair, as to its propriety and capability of remedying the evil complained of. That the evil was of a most serious nature, no one could doubt; and if it was possible that any remedy could be applied without violating the fundamental laws of property, there could be as little doubt but it ought to be adopted. The noble and learned lord, (Redesdale) had admitted the existence of the evil, but had dwelt chiefly on the difficulty of applying a cure. That, however, was no reason against entertaining the subject, and the objections to it had better be reserved till another time. The noble lord over the way (lord Clancarty), had adverted to the effect which such a plan might have on existing contracts. That objection did not come well from him, who had voted in favour of a measure formerly proposed by his noble friend, (the Bank-Note Bill), which went to violate all subsisting contracts. How happened it that the noble lord did not then think of an objection, which applied much more to that measure than to this? He could not conceive how the noble lord could consistently make this objection now, when he had disregarded it in the other case. It was clear that the practice in question was one great cause of the disturbed state of Ireland, and of no small degree of oppres. sion. If he had wanted any confirmation of this, the statement of the noble and learned lord opposite would have been sufficient to convince him; for the statement was, that the middle-men were compelled by a regard to their own interest, to have frequent recourse to the ruinous measure of distress. He agreed that they ought to proceed with caution and circumspection, but the forms of the House were a sufficient security for that. If the principle of the Bill should be found to be good, the committee would be the place to suggest amendments and alterations. The Union with Ireland had existed for several years; and he recollected one great argument for it was, the profound attention which would be given the affairs of Ireland. It was with pain that he wit-, nessed how little that expectation had been answered. He was sorry to see so thin an attendance on a subject of so much importance to that country. But it might, perhaps, be some excuse to Ireland, that the attendance was likely to be equally thin on a subject of no less importance to this country, the discussion of which was to have come on that night [alluding to the Insolvent Debtors' Bill.) The object in both cases was similar-it was to remove an evil which produced a mass of human misery and oppression. In both cases, the existence of the evil was acknowledged: the difficulty was to provide the remedy. But they ought to struggle the more against that difficulty if there was any possibility of its being surmounted. The Earl of Clancarty in explanation maintained, that he had supported the Bill alluded to by the noble lord, on the ground of preventing the tenant from being ground to the dust by being called upon to pay more than he ought to be compelled to pay, under the equity of his contract. The Lord Chancellor said, that the subject unquestionably deserved the most serious attention; it involved many considerations with regard to the law of landed property, which had not as yet been alluded to. The law was the same in England and Ireland, and it ought to be remembered, that the landholders there had it in their power so to contract as to render this Bill unnecessary. The Bill was then read a first time, and ordered to be printed. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Thursday, April 16. PETITION FROM DUBLIN AGAINST THE CLAIMS OF THE ROMAN CATHOLICS.] Mr. Shaw presented a Petition from the lord mayor, sheriffs, commons, and citizens of the city of Dublin, in common council assembled, 10th April 1812, setting forth, "That the lord mayor, sheriffs, commons, and citizens of the city of Dublin, whose loyalty to their most gracious sovereign, and his royal ancestors, monarchs of these realms, has ever been firm and unequivo cal, beg leave to approach the House, in the Queen's County, in Ireland, setting perfect confidence of its fixed determination to maintain unimpaired the Protestant constitution in Church and State; and that, reposing in full security on this confidence, the common council have not for some time past appeared as Petitioners before the House, notwithstanding the repeated demands of the Roman Catholics, but now, when it is publicly asserted that the Protestants of Ireland are favourable to such demands, and when every power of artifice and intimidation is employed to give colour to such assertion, the Petitioners should feel that they shrunk from their duty if they did not now declare, that in their opinion the concessions already made to the Roman Catholics are such as, if exercised with gratitude to the state, and for the tranquillity of the country, would be most amply sufficient to make the situation of the Roman Catholics happy under the present Protestant establishment; and praying the House to persevere in maintaining the constitution unimpaired in Church and State." Ordered to lie upon the table. Sir John Newport.-I much regret, Sir, that I did not enter the House a few minutes earlier, whilst the Petition just read was under cognizance of the House, that I might have enabled this House, by a statement of circumstances which occurred in that very assembly of the corporation of Dublin which framed that Petition, duly to estimate its value, and that of the meeting whose sentiments it conveys. It was there proposed to grant the freedom of the city of Dublin to major O'Donoghoe, in consideration of the signal valour and ability which that gallant officer had displayed in the defence of Tariffa, against an infinitely superior French force. His eminent services in that defence were proved by his being entrusted with the dispatches, which bore testimony to his distinguished gallantry. The majority of that corporate assembly gave a decided negative to the freedom, which was expressly refused to major O'Donoghoe because he was a Roman Catholic!!! How striking is the display of loyal attachment to the constitution, in thus withholding from the brave defenders of their country their well-earned rewards! PETITION OF THE ROMAN CATHOLICS OF QUEEN'S COUNTY.) Mr. Parnell presented a Petition from the Roman Catholics of (VOL. XXII.) forth, "That the Petitioners beg leave respectfully, at this most important conjuncture, to solicit the favourable attention of the House to the peculiar condition of the Roman Catholics of Ireland, under the severe penal laws now in force against them; and that, if they appear to the House to persevere with more than common earnestness in their humble solicitations for the abrogation of those laws, and for a free admission to the blessings and benefits of the civil constitution of their country, the Petitioners trust that their perseverance will be viewed rather as a proof of their just title to the liberty which they seek, and of their sincerity in its pursuit, than as the result of any sentiment hostile to the peace or true interests of this empire; and that the Petitioners should sincerely dread lest their silence might be construed by a faithful but feeling people as an indication of despair, and they would not lightly abandon the pursuit of a laudable and most important object, strengthened as they are by the concurring support of their generous and enlightened fellow countrymen, as well as by the fullest approbation of their own conscientious feelings; they beg leave humbly to state to the House, that they have publicly and solemnly taken every oath of fidelity and allegiance which the jealous caution of the legislature has, from time to time, imposed as tests of their political and moral principles; and, although, they are still set apart (how wounding to every sentiment of honour!) if unworthy of credit in these their sworn declarations, they can appeal confidently to the sacrifices which they and their forefathers have long made, and which they still make (rather than violate conscience by taking oaths of a spiritual import contrary to their belief), as decisive proofs of their profound reverence for the sacred obligation of an oath; and that, by those awful tests, they have bound themselves, in the presence of the all-seeing Deity, whom all classes of Christians adore, to be faithful and bear true allegiance to their most gracious sovereign lord king George the 3rd, and him to defend, to the utmost of their power, against all conspiracies and attempts whatsoever against his person, crown, or dignity; to use their utmost endeavours to disclose and make known to his Majesty and his heirs, all treasons and traitorous conspiracies which may be (2 D) as 1 formed against him or them, and faith-subvert the present Church establishment, fully to maintain, support, and defend, to the utmost of their power, the succession to the crown in his Majesty's family against all persons whomsoever; and that, by those oaths, they have renounced and abjured obedience and allegiance unto any other person claiming or pretending a right to the crown of this realm; that they have rejected, as unchristian and impious to believe, the detestable doctrine, that it is lawful in any ways to injure any person or persons whomsoever, under pretence of their being heretics, and also that unchristian and impious principle, that no faith is to be kept with heretics, that it is no article of their faith; and they renounce, reject, and abjure the opinion, that princes, excommunicated by the Pope and council, or by any authority whatsoever, may be deposed or murdered by their subjects or by any person whatsoever; that they do not believe that the Pope of Rome, or any other foreign prince, prelate, state, or potentate, hath, or ought to have, any temporal or civil jurisdiction, power, superiority, or pre-eminence, within this realm; that they firmly believe, that no act, in itself unjust, immoral, or wicked, can ever be justified or excused by or under pretence or colour that it was done for the good of the Church, or in obedience to any ecclesiastical power whatsoever; and that it is not an Article of the Catholic Faith, neither are they thereby required to believe or profess, that the Pope is infallible, or that they are bound to any order, in its own nature immoral, though the Pope or any ecclesiastical power should issue or direct such order, but that, on the contrary, they hold that it would be sinful in them to pay any respect or obedience thereto; and that they do not believe that any sin whatsoever, committed by them, can be forgiven at the mere will of any Pope, or of any Priest, or of any person or persons whatsoever, but that any person who receives absolution, without a sincere sorrow for such sin, and a firm and sincere resolution to avoid future guilt, and to atone to God, so far from obtaining thereby any remission of his sin, incurs the additional guilt of violating a sacrament; and, by the same solemn obligations, they are bound and firmly pledged to defend, to the utmost of their power, the settlement and arrangement of property in Ire. land, as established by the laws now in being; that they have declared, disavowed, and solemnly abjured, any intention to for the purpose of substituting a Catholic establishment in its stead; and that they have solemnly sworn, that they will not exercise any privilege, to which they are or may become entitled, to disturb and weaken the Protestant religion or Protestant government in Ireland; and that they can, with perfect truth, assure the House, that the political and moral prin❘ciples asserted by these solemn and special tests are not merely in unison with their fixed principles, but expressly inculcated by the religion which they profess; and they do most humbly trust, that, as professors of doctrines which permit such tests to be taken, they shall appear to the House to be entitled to the full enjoyment of religious freedom, under the happy constitution of these realms; and that frequently has the legislature of Ireland borne testimony to the uniform peaceable demeanour of the Irish Roman Catholics, to their acknowledged merits as good and loyal subjects, to the wisdom and sound policy of admitting them to all the blessings of a free constitution, and of thus binding together all classes of people by mutual interest and mutual affection; and that yet may may they humbly represent to the House, and they do so at this perilous crisis, with sincere regret and deep solicitude, that the Roman Catholics of Ireland still remain subject to severe and humiliating laws, rigidly enforced, universally felt, and inflicting upon them divers injurious and vexatious disabilities incapacities privations and penalties, by reason of their conscientious adherence to the religious doctrines of their forefathers; and that, for nearly the entire period of the last twenty years, the progress of religious freedom has been obstructed, and, whilst other Christian nations have hastened to unbind the fetters imposed upon religious dissent, the Roman Catholics of Ireland have remained unrelieved; and that the laws, which unequivocally attest their innocence and their merits, continue to load them with the pains of guilt; their own consciences, the voice of mankind, acquit them of crime and offence; their Protestant fellow citizens press forward, with generous ardour and enlightened benevolence, to testify their earnest wishes for their relief; yet these penal laws, of which they humbly complain, cherish the spirit of hostility, and impede the cordial union of the people, which is at all times so desirable, and now so necessary; and that these penal laws operate for no useful or meritorious purpose, affording no aid to the constitution in church or state; not attaching affection to either, they are efficient only for objects of disunion and disaffection; they separate the Protestant from the Catholic, and withdraw both from the public good; they irritate man against his fellow creature, alienate the subject from the state, and leave the Roman Catholic community but a precarious and imperfect protection, as the reward of fixed and unbroken allegiance; and that the Petitioners forbear to detail the numerous incapacities and inconveniences inflicted by those laws, directly or indirectly, upon the Roman Catholic community, or to dwell upon the humiliating and ignominious system of exclusion, reproach, and suspicion which they generate and keep alive; perhaps no other age or nation has ever witnessed severities more vexatious, or inflictions more taunting, than those which the Petitioners have long endured, and of which but too large a portion still remains; and that relief from these disabilities and penalties they have sought through every channel that has appeared to them to be legitimate and eligible; they have never consciously violated, or sought to violate, the known laws of the land, nor have they pursued their object in any other manner than such as has been usually adhered to, and apparently the best calculated to collect and communicate their united sentiments accurately, without tumult, and to obviate all pretext for asserting, that the Roman Catholic community at large were indifferent to the pursuit of their freedom; and they can affirm, with perfect sincerity, that they have no latent views to realize, no secret or sinister objects to attain; any such imputation must be effectually repelled, as they humbly conceive, by the consideration of their numbers, their property, and their known principles and character; and that their object is avowed and direct, earnest yet natural; it extends to an equal participation of the civil rights of the constitution of their country equally with their fellow subjects of all other religious persuasions; it extends no further; and that they would cheerfully concede the enjoyment of civil and religious liberty to all mankind; they ask no more for themselves; they seek not the possession of offices, but mere eligibility to office, in common with their fellow citizens; not power or ascendancy over any class of people, but the bare permission to rise from their prostrate posture, and to stand erect in the empire; and that they have been taught that, according to the pure and practical principles of the British constitution, property is justly entitled to a proportionate share of power; and they humbly trust, that no reasonable apprehension can arise from that power which can only be obtained and exercised through the constitution; and they are sensible, and they do not regret, that this equality of civil rights, which alone they humbly sue for, will leave a fair practical ascendancy wheresoever property shall predominate; but, whilst they acknowledge the wholesomeness of this great principle, they cannot admit the necessity of the unqualified disfranchisement of any part of the people in a constitution like that of these realms; and that they are gratified by the reflection that the attainment of this their constitutional object will prove as conducive to the welfare and security of this great empire, as to the complete relief of the Roman Catholic community; that it will secure the quiet and concord of their country, animate all classes of the people in the common defence, and form the most stable protection against the dangers which heavily menace these islands; for the Petitioners most humbly presume to submit to the House, as their firm opinion, that an equal degree of enthusiasm cannot reasonably be expected from men, who feel themselves excluded from a fair participation of the blessings of a good constitution and government, as from those who fully partake of its advantages; that the enemies of this empire, who meditate its subjugation, found their best hope of success upon the effects of those penal laws, which, by depressing millions of the inhabitants of Ireland, may weaken their attachment to their country, and impair the means of its defence; and that the continued pressure of these laws in times of unexampled danger only spreads the general feeling of distrustful alarm, and augments the risks of common ruin; and that, to avert such evils, to preserve and promote the welfare and security of this empire, and to become thoroughly identified with their fellow subjects in interests and affection, are objects as precious in their eyes, upon every consideration of property, principle, and moral duty, as in those of any other description of the inhabitants of these realms; and that, if, in thus humbly submitting their depressed condition, and their earnest |