guards were quartered along with the men? | ways, with inn-keepers' allowances, &c. not the mode now pursued not only fol- | guards, she pointed to the people in the and whether he had ever heard of any inconvenience having resulted from their not being so quartered ? General Phipps had to answer the right hon. baronet that it would be much better if they were. Mr. Creevey observed, that though the valuable lease of 548 acres of Mary-lebone Park had fallen into the crown within the last year, and there had been no report from the surveyor-general of the land revenue of the crown since that of Mr. Fordyce, in 1809, yet that no report had been made this session. This was a breach of the act of the 50th of the King, which directed such reports to be laid before parliament every three years. It was the duty of lord Glenbervie to have furnished the history of these crownlands; and he was the more disinclined to leave the management of these matters to his lordship, whom, he saw, was proprietor in a new canal, called the Regent's Canal, about to be cut in this very Mary-le-bone Park. Lord Glenbervie, he observed, by a clause in the Bill, had given himself, as surveyor-general of the land revenues of the crown, a power to contract with lord Glenbervie, as proprietor of the Regent's Canal-[Here the hon. gentleman read the clause empowering the sale of part of the crown lands for the purposes of the Canal.] His lordship had also issued cards to the members of the House, to come down on Tuesday, at three o'clock, to support the Bill, and to assure all those who chose to join him of 11 per cent. for their money. Indeed so busy did he appear to be with his canal, he had not had time to make his report. On these grounds he wished for further enquiry, before he voted the money now asked for. He also objected to the scite chosen for the barracks at Liverpool, and contended that the other side of the town was more eligible. near Sir Mark Wood supported the original Resolution, and had no hope of any time coming more fit than the present, for executing works, in his opinion, absolutely indispensable. He contended for the necessity of having barracks town for the guards, who could not remain in the stables they possessed any longer, and were liable to all the evils and inconveniencies attendant on being billetted in public-houses, two or three miles from their horses. He also maintained, that the expence incurred would not be more than the men now cost in various other Barracks also separated them from the contagion of vice, so injurious to discipline in populous sea-ports, such as Liverpool and Bristol. Mr. Wynn concurred generally with Mr. Bankes, as to the unfitness of the time, and the barracks not being now absolutely necessary. His great objection was to the enormous expenditure, and he appre. hended no danger to the horse guards, from their remaining in the same situation in which they had been for the last century. Mr. Bastard said, the barracks built 50 years ago were more comfortable for the men, more convenient for discipline, and more durable than those built of late years at greater expence. Till the cause of this was enquired into, he wished the present vote to be postponed. Sir F. Burdett said, that he felt it less necessary to address the House, from the conviction he entertained of the truth of the assertion of the Secretary of the Treasury, that he should be able to persuade the majority of the House that the vote ought to be acceded to. On this subject, however, involving a question of the highest constitutional importance, he could not consent to give a silent vote. On former occasions, in addressing the House upon this subject, he had been accused of disaffection, because he had asserted, that the government was attempting to make use of that army which was paid by the people for the subjugation of the people. The truth of this statement the vote now proposed made evident, and some of its supporters even went so far as to urge the necessity of concurring in it, lest the soldiers should be intercepted by the populace whom they were to subdue, on the way to their horses. (Hear! hear! from ministers.] He had no doubt his remarks were not very welcome to the other side of the House, whose business it was, with inconsistent prodigality, to throw away the public money with one hand, while they were grinding the nation with taxation with the other. At a time when discontents convulsed the country when ministers felt their weakness, and required support other than that of the people, that was indeed the fit period for establishing a military system for their protection, by the erection of barracks to keep down the national spirit in all the populous districts. Much was said of the hateful tyranny of Buonaparte, but was lowing his steps, but even outrunning him in the formation of a military despotism, to govern the people, not by law, but by the sword? Were not the soldiers on the slightest occasions called in to keep down the people? Did they not commit murders upon the people? [Order! order! order!) This was indeed a new, and an auspicious æra [Order!] Gentlemen might make what exclamations they pleased, but they should not drown his voice, which was only uttering the truth. General Manners spoke to order. He said that to assert that what the hon. baronet was stating was the truth, was casting an undeserved slur upon the army. streets, and said, "These are my guards, Sir F. Burdett denied that he was making any accusation against those who were compelled to act under the orders of their superiors. It was the administration of the country that he charged with employ-now stood, the magistrates were not jus ing the army to commit murders. tified in letting the soldiery loose upon the people, and giving them up to military execution. The Riot Act allowed the constitutional officers, sheriffs, constables, &c. to interfere, and justified those constitu General Manners desired that the hon. baronet's words might be taken down. Sir F. Burdett said, that he had no objection to any of his words being taken down; but as the hon. general had called ❘tional officers in using force, if the popu him to order without attempting to shew how he was out of order, and expressed a wish that his words should be taken down without moving for it regularly, he thought that it was rather the words of the hon. general which ought to be taken down. He would maintain that the act which was relied on, called the Riot Act, did not say any thing about soldiers, or authorise the magistrates to employ them as they had done, or give up a starving population to military execution. When he heard the Secretary to the Treasury argue, that it was a vicious system to keep the soldiers out of barracks, or to allow any free intercourse between them and the people, he could not but observe how totally the constitutional opinions of our ancestors had been departed from in the present times. Such doctrines would have filled our forefathers with horror and affright, and against such sentiments he must ever protest. Was it in this new era that the Prince Regent was to be told by his ministers, that the foundations of the British throne ought not to rest in the affections of the people, but on an army? At former periods of our history, and in the most successful reigns, such had not been the policy of the country. When Queen Elizabeth was asked by the Spanish minister, where were her lace would not disperse in a certain time after reading the act. The Riot Act did not prescribe that the soldiery should be ordered to fire upon unarmed multitudes, in order to disperse them. He conceived that the expence of these barracks would be a great objection in the present times, but it was on the unconstitutional tendency of the measure that he rested his principal objection to it. The Chancellor of the Exchequer was firmly convinced, that however the question might be disposed of, or whatever might be thought of the details of it, there would be very few persons found either in the House or in the country to follow the hon. baronet in his argument, or to concur in a single sentiment which the hon, baronet had uttered. He believed that the hon. baronet was extremely mistaken, if he supposed that the speech which he had just delivered was likely to make any great impression out of the House, or that he would be considered as acting under a sound discretion, when at this period above all others-when his mind could not fail to be impressed with the disgraceful scenes that every day occurred in a particular part of the kingdom, the hon. baronet held out to the people that those measures, the employment of which cruel necessity compelled, were re sorted to for the purpose of crushing the liberties of the subject, and that this was a government not of the law, but of the sword. He believed that it would be almost universally felt, that the steps which government, or which the magistrates thought proper to pursue, were not for the purpose of crushing the liberties of the country, nor to make war with the people, and subdue them; but for the purpose of protecting the valuable lives and the valuable properties of his Majesty's subjects from rioters and incendiaries. These were the people whom the hon. baronet appeared now to have taken under his protection; and this mob of rioters and incendiaries were called by him, the people; nothing in these statements of the hon. baronet, but mere declamatory nonsense; or, if there could be collected any sense from them, it would be only such as was calculated to do infinite mischief in the present agitated and disturbed state of many districts. He should pass over those topics without any further observation, and take it for granted, that no man could find out more danger to the constitution from the regiment of horse guards having barracks in Mary-le-bone park, than if they continued in King-street; or in a detachment of the ordnance being stationed in the above park, instead of the whole park being at Woolwich. The right hon. gentleman then defended the estimate in de and government was charged with making | tail, and conceived that he had given proper the barracks, in all the situations required, | he alluded, the decision of which he should they cannot behold with indifference the | tually suspending that power which has war upon the liberties of the people, because they would not allow a turbulent populace to destroy all the valuable accumulations of wealth, property and ingenuity in the realm. To preserve the peace of the districts so disturbed, government had been obliged to draw troops from different parts of the kingdom; and this was what the hon. baronet called making war upon the people and subverting their liberties. He (the Chancellor of the Exchequer) could, without much difficulty, attribute the speech which the House had just heard to its true origin. The hon. baronet had no doubt strongly in his recollection the steps which government had been obliged to take to repel the tumultuary aid which had been offered to him in resisting the laws of the country. He might now confidently say, resisting the laws of the country; for the law had since been recognised and settled in the most formal manner in the tribunal, to which the hon. baronet chose to appeal, -a Trial by Jury. The hon. baronet doubtlessly meant that the constitution had been violated, and the liberties infringed some few months since, when government was compelled to send military force to quell the multitude raised by him. Now he understood why the hon. baronet disliked the life-guards, and their barracks. It arose from some awkward impression that yet remained of an unsuccessful attempt to defy and defeat the law. -There was nothing which ministers could do, that would go more immediately to destroying the constitution and the liberties of the country, than by permitting such tumultuary proceedings to go unchecked. He trusted, however, that the good sense of the public would perceive, that there was a advice to the Prince Regent, when he advised his Royal Highness to surrender the 510 acres of ground which formed this new park, to the health and comforts of the inhabitants of this great metropolis, instead of making the greatest rent of it by covering it with buildings. As a barrack was wanted, he thought it much the most eligible plan to build it upon this land belonging to the crown. As to the expence formerly incurred in barrack estimates, it had nothing to do with the present question, as the contract was open to fair competition, and it was allowed that the expenditure was now watched over with the greatest vigilance. Mr. Huskisson condemned, in very strong and pointed language, the speech delivered by the hon. baronet, which he had heard with pain, though not with astonishment, recollecting the rooted aversion which the hon. baronet must naturally entertain to the life guards, who had restored order at a time when the hon. baronet was the first to set the laws at defiance. He maintained that the military, whenever they were called on to suppress disturbances, behaved with a moderation that was highly admirable, and which even the deluded wretches whom they quelled were the first to acknowledge. The hon. baronet had made allusions to the history of former periods, which by no means bore him out in his argument. In particular he had adverted for an instance of the reliance which a sovereign might place on his subjects to the reign of Elizabeth, who was known to be one of the greatest tyrants that ever existed. Still, it was with sorrow he said it, he was compelled to concur with the hon. baronet in the vote he should give. He contended that the erection of was inexpedient, and in some instances unnecessary. The estimate for them was also extremely excessive, the usual rate being only about 120l. for every man and horse of the cavalry, and only about 60l. for every man of the infantry. The frontage of the barracks in Mary-le-bone was nearly one-third of a mile, and the wall to inclose it not less than a mile in circumference. Thinking that the postponement could not be injurious in any point of view, he should support the amendment. Mr. Barham said, that although he came down to the House to vote for the amendment, he had been induced to change his resolution by the address of the hon. baronet, and certainly the Chancellor of the Exchequer had in his comments been a little ungrateful, since no speech that had been delivered could have more benefited him. He was an enemy to barracks, but if any thing could convince him to think them necessary, it would be the prevalence of such doctrines as he had heard with disgust that night; and he trusted he should not often see persons in this country appeal from the laws to the mob. The House then divided In favour of the Amendment... 112 Majority... 134 .....-22 The original Resolution was then carried. RENEWAL OF THE EAST INDIA COMPANY'S CHARTER.] Mr. Ponsonby observed, that the right hon. the Chancellor of the Exchequer had declared to the House that he should, in the course of this week, be able to lay upon the table some information respecting the renewal of the Charter of the East India Company. This was the last day of the week, and as he had not yet fulfilled his pledge, he was desirous of knowing whether it was the right hon. gentleman's intention to persevere in bringing the matter forward during the present session ? The Chancellor of the Exchequer answered that since he had last addressed the House upon the subject, some difference of opinion had arisen between the directors of the East India Company and government, which rendered it much more unlikely, that the matter would be brought under discussion this session, than he had had reason to believe would have been the case. A court of proprietors was to be held that day, respecting the differences to which be able to lay before the House by Monday. He was led to apprehend, however, from some conversations he had held with gentlemen interested in the matter, that the question respecting the renewal of the Charter of the East India Company, could not be brought to a successful issue during the present session. HOUSE OF COMMONS. Monday, May 4. PETITIONS FROM SCARBOROUGH-AND ABERDEEN, RESPECTING COMMERCIAL LICENCES.) A Petition of the owners of ships belonging to the port of Scarborough in the county of York, was presented and read; setting forth, "That the ships of the petitioners were formerly chiefly engaged in the coal and Baltic trades, but since the ports of the Baltic have been shut, their principal resource has been and now is in the coal trade, and in bringing timber from the British colonies in North America; and that the petitioners are deeply impressed with a sense of the magnitude and extent of the evils arising from the present system of granting licences to foreign vessels to import timber, deals, staves, and other kinds of wood into this country, to the manifest disadvantage of the British shipping interest, such importations not only interfering most fatally with our trade to the British American colonies, but being also highly injurious to the colonists themselves; and that the House is well aware of the confined trade and depressed state of the shipping interest, from the present unfortunate situation of Europe; but the encouragement given to foreign vessels, and even to those belonging to our enemies, by granting them licences to import wood into this country, has not only increased the depression, but is likely to annihilate the shipping trade to British North America; and if the present system of granting licences is continued, the petitioners are apprehensive it will become ruinous to them, and to the shipping interest at large; and that the petitioners have, with deep regret, foreseen for some time the baneful effect the granting of licences so extensively would produce upon the wise and venerable maritime laws of this country, upon the faith of which they embarked their capitals, in hopes of acquiring a maintenance by their honest exertions in their profession; and encouragement given to foreigners, by aid of British licences, to supply the place of British capital and British industry: besides the evil tendency of the licence system striking at the very root of our navigation laws, the petitioners most deeply deplore that it is the occasion of such systematic falshood, perjury, and depravity, as is highly reprehensible in a moral point of view, and may eventually prove the ruin of the general mercantile hitherto contributed so essentially to her superiority as a nation; and that the petitioners further beg leave to state, that, as they are well aware of the difficult and critical circumstances of the times, and would most willingly submit to any privation for the general good of the British empire, yet they must, at the same time, most humbly request, that the House will be pleased carefully to investigate the great deviations which have lately been interests of the world; and that the peti-made upon the maritime laws of this king • tioners beg leave to state, that the English merchants and ship-owners have made every effort in their power to support themselves in a trading competition with those licensed foreigners, by importing timber, deals, &c. from our colonies in America, but the foreigners, being fully employed in the Baltic and Norway trades, have shorter voyages to perform, and being navigated at a less expence than British ships, have such a decided advantage, that neither the English merchant or ship owner can contend against such unfavourable and unnatural circumstances; and that the petitioners most humbly submit to the House, that if necessity renders it indispensable that any part of the licence system should be tolerated, it ought to be confined exclusively to articles of the first necessity, and, in their humble opinion, should not be extended to such commodities as may be procured from our own possessions, or even from any foreign port to which British ships can safely navigate; and that the petitioners view with amazement and concern the extensive and flourishing trade of the northern powers to this kingdom, by the indulgence of licences; in dom, upon the foundation of which the stupendous fabric of our wealth and power has been erected, and upon which, in a great measure, the preservation of the British empire depends; and that the petitioners humbly presume that these valuable laws should not be departed from, particularly at a time when our inveterate and strong confederate enemies seem bent upon their destruction; and, therefore, most earnestly praying the House will be pleased to appoint a committee to take into consideration the infringement of the British navigation laws, and particularly to investigate into the necessity of granting licences to foreign vessels to import all sorts of wood into this country." A Petition of several merchants and ship owners of the port of Aberdeen, was also presented and read; setting forth, "That the ships belonging to the port of Aberdeen were heretofore mostly engaged in the coal coasting and foreign trades, but since they have been shut out from the ports of the Baltic, their chief employment has been in bringing timber from the British colonies in North America; and that the present unfortunate state of the almost every British port, the petitioners | continent of Europe has tended, in a high see the Danes, Swedes, Russians, and other northern states, display their flags in commercial prosperity, while the commercial flag of Great Britain is never shewn in their ports, except, indeed, when it is seen underneath the flag of a belligerent, to denote the triumph of capturing a British vessel: the rapid improvement in the appearance and skill of foreign seamen since the granting of those licences, is evident to the petitioners, and to all persons who are acquainted with nautical affairs; a hardy and able race of mariners is thus reared, and, whilst our enemies are putting forth all their strength, Great Britain, by the continuance of the system of which the petitioners complain, is vir(VOL. XXII.) degree, to confine the trade, and depress the shipping interest of this kingdom; and the encouragement which has been given to foreign vessels, by granting them licences to import timber, deals, staves, and other kinds of wood into this country, has greatly increased the evil, and will, if persisted in, be attended with the most ruinous consequences to the British ship owners; and that the petitioners are fully sensible of the critical situation of the times, and are most willing to submit to any privations to which they may be exposed, by such regulations as are calculated for the general good; while, however, they entertain these sentiments, and are ready to admit the expediency of the (4E) |